The LOST Writers' Island

fricksgurl75 · The light on the dark side of me..

Season 6 - The final season discussion thread...how do you think it'll all end?!

lisagwilkins · Site Administrator

Oh wow Patti, this is so good, I don't know how I can add to it, but I'm gonna try.

Sundown on Sanity..

It was Sayids episode. He's a complicated guy, alot like Sawyer. But what we know about Sayid in the end is, the things he wants most of all is to be a good person. To have love and happiness, to have normalcy, things we take for granted. He is not granted that. In either life it seems. It some ways he knows he's never meant for it. Understands this implictly. Deep down he knews it'll always be just out of his reach.

I thought this was and excellent episode. As with so many, there are elements that I wasn't fond up, but the good far outweighed the bad. I didn't expect Sayid to do some of the things he did this time, but I can totally see the reasoning behind it. And yes, I agree the only thing Sayid really wants is to be "a good man". As a matter of fact, that's exactly what he told Dogen, "I am a good man."

And if I'm not mistaken, he said that in the back story for Enter 77 as well when the restaurant owner and his wife had him held captive for torturing her. I'll have to check but I think he did.

The promise of getting it is all it takes to drive the last wedge of sanity out of the man. To make him essentially give into the darkness. It's a common tale really.

"See madness is like gravity.. all it needs is.. a little push.." Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight.

Everyone has a "looney button' to quote Stephen King in the terrific Novella "The Body" on which the movie "Stand By Me" was based. It's a place in us that if you hit just right, enough times, with enough force, the mind will just split. And the crazy person comes out. And once they are out, it's hard to get that fucker back in again.

Another example of this is in the movie Wolf, where the old professor tells Jack Nicholson that the will of the man controls the will of the wolf he turns into. He tells him that if the man is evil then the wolf will be evil but if the man is good then the wolf will be harmless, and that sometimes it doesn't even take a bite for the man to become a wolf, it just takes the will. Perhaps this is the same for Sayid.

We know what Sayids 'Loony Button' is don't we? As he told Flocke, 'the only thing I ever wanted died in my arms.." Now he didn't specify who or what he meant. We infer it meant Nadia, but remember Shannon died his arms too. People on Lost never really say what the really mean, the show is maddenigly cryptic like that. He could've meant both. What I think he meant was rather simple really.

Hope, love and happiness. Both times with both women he had that. It was in his hands. And then it was ripped away and essentially died in his arms. Any chance to be normal, whether it was Shannon or Nadia was taken away, and the darkness came n to replace that light.

This I thought was particularly interesting and it took Patti last night to make me notice it. We don't know exactly who Sayid was talking about. The general assumption could have been Nadia, but I agree that it was not Nadia or Shannon, but all of them. Nadia, Shannon, love, hope, happiness, all of them have embodied the women he's loved and they have all died in his arms.

Beverly Marah in Stephen Kings novel IT thought of the monster. "It's here.. it's the whole town.. it just fills the hollow places..." Its like on the isalnd, the monster just fills the hollow places, the ones that left empty and alone.

Evil and madness always find their way in the moments we are the most vulndrable. They whispere in your ear, promise you solutions. Give you a way out. Promise an end to the suffering if you just do one more thing for me. I can give you everything you want, and someone to blame as well.

Which takes me back to Christ's temptations. Un-Locke said last night, "what if I could give you everything you want." That's exactly the same thing and that's his hold. He promises everything but at a price. So the bottom line is what is the price and is it too high to pay?

Ever wonder how true believers get created? The person in control finds out what that particular person wants and promise it to them, if you'll go my way. Weak and vulneralbe people like Claire and Sayid, can be swayed in that sense. Someone who you wouldn't think would fall for it does.

Flocke wanted them for a purpose, cause they can be used. Sayid was used most of his life to others dirty work for them. Flocke knew he'd be a dangerous weapon if turned the right way. Its why he wanted him. Sayid without the restraints of his sanity and concience would be dangerous weapon. As would an angry Sawyer. And a mother who lost a child, nothing more dangerous than. Flocke choose his weapons well it seems.

Ben did exactly the same thing. Remember when he and Juliet were in the Dharma station with all the monitors. Juliet asked him how he'd get Jack to do the surgery and he said, "I'll find out what he's invested in and I'll exploit it." This is exactly the same thing Un-Locke did.

Another take on Reality..

What about this alternate universe bt the way. In this one, Nadia is married to Sayid's brother. She is happy, albeit worried about him. And when she talks to Sayid you get the feeling that she wondered for a long time why she wasn't with him. Why he didn't answer her letters.

Sayid's answer was that he didn't desrve her. mabye there was a part of him that knew that she was better off without him in that sesne. Sayid seems to have it together, at least it looks like he's got a legit job, but who knows what he's doing for a living really. The one thing he dosen't have is Nadai though.

Personally, I think the job is a front. I think he might have told his brother and Nadia that, but with the "skill set" we know he has, I kind of don't think that's exactly what he does.

Toward the end, Sayid shows he's got the skills he had in the other life, which makes you wonder exactly what he really does. But that's a question for another day.

My thoughts are simply this. I don't think Sayid was ever meant to be with Nadia. I think it was always a hope and a want, and maybe sometthing he was holding onto, thinking it would make him better if he just had her. Remember what he said to Danielle in Solitary. "The more I hold onto that, the more I p ull away from everyone else around me.."

She was his past in alot of ways, and early one, he was moving away from that. Had found someone on the island that he'd fallen in love with. Had a chance to really turn it around right there. And then the worst possible thing could've happened. Shannon died in his arms in what was a tragic accident. And Sayids future changed right there.

I agree totally. I think Sayid believed if he had Nadia, or Shannon, that he would be the respectable man he doesn't think he is. He thinks he doesn't deserve anything good and he thinks if he pushes happiness away, the need will go away and the pain will stop. But the problem is it won't.

If that hadn't happened, he would've likely have stayed with and/or committed to Shannon, like he said he would. And I have no reason not believe him when he said that. And if that was the case, he would've given up Nadia upon rescue (if it ever came) and mostly likely moved on. Nadia would never had died, and Sayid would never have gone down the path that brought him where he was.

Essentially, that moment, way back in Season 2, was the ultimate turning point for the character. It makes me wonder what role Shannon will play in the remaining episodes, since Maggie's return has been confirmed. Dose not Nadia not being available open the door for Shayid again? Quite possible.

And the big question, will she appear on the island as well? I think thats a possibility since they are being tight-lipped about it. But anyways.. back to the analysis for a moment...

I think this is exactly on target. I think Shannon's death was a major turning point for Sayid. Had she not died it would not have given "the smoke monster" the opportunities that are now being presented by Un-Locke, especially since we know that all the Losties have been being watched all their lives. Losing Shannon was one more brick in the wall Sayid's been building up ever since he learned his new "skill set."

"The sleep of reason breeds monsters" Goya

One could see the look on the face of Sayid when Floke tells him he could make it happen for him. That tortured look of hope on his face was heartbreaking. At that moment you could almost see the crack forming in his already tortured psyche,

I noticed this too. You could see the tortured look on his face and the fleeting hope that could it be possible to get back what he lost. It makes me wonder what it would be like if he could have it.

Remember the movie Practical Magic. Sandra Bullock's wonderful husband was killed and she went to her aunts who were witches to bring him back. They told her that if they brought him back, he wouldn't be the same, he'd be something dark. Perhaps that's what Sayid is now. Something different than he was before.

In the temple, he's eerily calm, listening to Dogans story about his son. A sod one, and Sayid almot looks moved for a second. Maybe he was. Maybe some sanity was stil there. Until finally he takes off the mask and drowns him in the water. And proceeds to kill the other guy, for no reason other than he is there.

Sayid is in the Black now, no longer constrined by his sanity or conscience. He kills the 2 of them almost cold-bloodedly, and then just sitting there with the mad smile on his face is about as creepy as Claire singing "Catch a Falling Star" in the pit. They are both truly lost now. Whether they can be retrieved is open to question.

I think Sayid's mad smile was pivotal here. It showed exactly how far into the darkness he's slipped. And the problem is, he appears to like it and that's the most frightening part of all. How far is he willing to go before he realizes what is happening to him? Or will he realize it at all.

Can their insanity be cured or healed. Or like rabid dogs (of wolves) would death be a greater mercy? I'd like to believe they are not that far gone.

And a final addendum: Both Emilie and Naveen are putting on a clinic of acting that people should notice. Incredibly convincing, you still feel bad for them, even as they are cutting swaths through people. Brilliant, kudos to both.

Oh I know, they both did so good last night. I was so proud of their performances. Emilie is doin' a fantastic job this season.

The bottom line is I can't wait to see how this all turns out. I was a little worried that we were losin' Sayid last night but we didn't...so we'll see what happens as we go along.

fricksgurl75 · The light on the dark side of me..

Oh I know, they both did so good last night. I was so proud of their performances. Emilie is doin' a fantastic job this season.

Definatly, she's been a surprise.. Naveens always good but Emilie has really branched out.

The bottom line is I can't wait to see how this all turns out. I was a little worried that we were losin' Sayid last night but we didn't...so we'll see what happens as we go along.

Well in a way we did lose him somewhat.. whether he can be retrieved or not is still open to question.

Ok I was thinking aobut some things and I wanted to expand on them a bit.

Flocke vs. Jacob

I have read many things on this, and some are saying its hard to tell the difference between the 2.That Jacob is just a manipulative as Flocke. That is true.. but that's all Gods I suppose. But there is a criticcal difference here between the 2 of them.

The evidence of this is quite simple. Jacob dose not manipulate vulnerable people into killing outhers for his goals. Like waht Flocke did with Ben, and you can debate this all you want, using Sawyers anger to recruit him.

But the best example I would say is Flocke's blatant manipulation of Sayid and Claire, 2 vert lost souls right now. Wheras Jacob is taking Jack and Hurley, and pushing them, maybe even manipulating them yes, ultitimatly the choice is therirs. Like He said to Hurley, 'some you can tell them what to in a taxi, but some need to stare out at the ocean before they decide' Jacob is about free will for the most part.

Sayid and Claire are both obviously sick now, and Flocke threw just truth in the middle of his lies to be able to manipulate them. You get the feeling he told Claire they'd get her baby back if she did all this. Just like he told Sayid he give him what he wanted. They are both, while very different people, not really themselves in a sense.

Jacob has not used his influence to cause people harm, there dosen't seem to be any maviolence in him. He does what he does, like God in that sense. And be cause 'you propose nothing in the sight of God' because his motives are never clear, and things aren't always fair, it's easy to question him as result. It's easire to believe Rasputin, who tells you exactly what you want to hear.

"Darkness has a hunger that insatisable.. and lightness has a call thats thats hard to hear." The Indigo Girlss "Closer to Fine"

it's easier to sucuub than resist. Resisting requires a strong will, and maybe a healthy pysche. Some people are not strong enough emitionally to fight the infection so to speak. They can be exploited in many ways in spite of their good intentions.

The Story of Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars is all about this. He was angry young man who had lost his mother, and was dreadfully afraid of losing his wife Padme. Palpatine, like Flocke, knew these fears and doubts and exploited them, offering him a solution that aave his wife. He had to become his pupil and learn the dark side. And because of this Anakin did horibble things, all with the best intention of course, but you know what they say about those. And because of this, he ends up causing the death of his wife as a result. The very thing he was trying to prevent.

Because good is harder, doing the right thing is always more difficult. There's more resistance, there's more doubt, and the slightest thing is descouragine. It's easier to cheat or steal than to earn it through hard work.

For Sayid I think it's easier to give into his darker nature than to fight it. To try and be a good person, cause every time he tried, it slipped away from him. Shannon died in his arms, Nadia as well. Whats the good in being good if all you get is misery as a result. And he's not strong enough emotionally to handle these losses in a heatlhy manner, he always falls back on what he's comfortable with a result.

"Don't watch me now.." Vin Deisel to his dead girlffriend in "A Man Apart"

There's a line in "The Brave One" That I always think of. Maybe caues Naveen was in the movie as the dead boyfriend David, But for some reason it stands out. The cope friend (Terrence Howard ) has figured out that Erica (Jodie Foster) is the vigillante. He asks her almost crypitically "What woudl David think of all this?" And her answer was "I don't know.. the dead don't talk.. at least not to me.."

Would would they think? What would Shannon or Nadia think of all the things he's done since they've been gone.? They would ask "why are you doing this? For us? Or for yourself?"" I don't think either one would be happy with what he's done.

Nadia told him in sideways world, "whatever your going to do.. don't do it.." Trying to steer him away from she knew he wanted to do. Although eventually he did do it anyway, but he didn't seek it out either.

The point is, without the counteracting forces, without anyone to by their words o r actions to keep from that, you will do it. You'll do it because your hurt, because those people aren't there to hold you back anymore.

I think if either one of them could talk to him they'd tell him to not do this for them. That that issn't what they want. All he's doing at this point is pulling himself fruther from where they are and were. Same thing with Claire, the further she sinks into it, the further away she gets from her son as well. That's the damage Flocke is wrecking it's the saddest part,.

It's what makes Flocke the worse kind of evil, because he takes the desperate hope and needs of very disturbed people and warpes it to suit his own purposes. And taking them further and futher away from the lights that might save them.

It's one thing Jacob dosen't do. He may be a manipulatvie bastard, but he's not a soul-cucking monster. That's the difference really.

-- Edited by fricksgurl75 on Thursday 4th of March 2010 08:07:54 PM