The LOST Writers' Island

lisagwilkins · Site Administrator

Season 6 - The final season discussion thread...how do you think it'll all end?!

lisagwilkins · Site Administrator

Tonight is the premier!! What did you like? What didn't you like? What are your thoughts? Let the games begin!

fricksgurl75 · The light on the dark side of me..

for the all the good for ever reads this :p

But now that i've had time to somewhat process what I saw last night in the premier. Just observations in general.

Two Realities

I think that's fairly obvios as to what we have here. In one the plan never crashes and in the other they are still on the island, a bit more forward in time though.

Starting with LAX reality, a few things I noticed. It was subtly different and sometimes not so sutly. But first off with Jack. Who looked as if he was expecting something to happen. Almost like he remembered just a little. There was a cut on his neck, which some speculate was from the bomb blast. And since Jack was the one who instigate the whole thing in the first place, he may be the one with the strongest sense of memory.

Subtle difference in the opening scene with hm (not including Jacks hair, which was very different than on the day of the crash) Instead of Jack telling Rose "it's Noral" meaning the turbelence, Rose says it to him. Just wonder if that meant anything.

Other passngers on the plane: Hurley seems more happy and says nothing bad ever happens to him, almost like a polar opposite of the Hurley we know who thinks everything bad happens to him. Sawyer seems less pissed off so to speak, less like someone who just killed someone and more like a normal person. Even warning Hurley about being taken advantage of. Even Locke seems to be more at peace with his situation as it is.

Sun and Jin seem to be back to where they were as far as the way Jin reats her. And I do wonder if Sun even speaks English in this reality.

A word on Boone, where the situation was a bit interesting. He's alone on the flight, Shannon is conspicuous by her absence (which just might have been due to Maggie being unavilable at the time) but Boone's statement about how she didn't want to be recsued leads me to believe that instead trying to pay off her boyfriend he simply left. No visitto the police station either, when Sawyer had bee dragged through,. Maybe in this reaity, he never was.

In a sense it would seem as if their whole lives are either better or different, with the notable exception of Kate. Which makes you wonder if this is essentally a what-if reality. And makes you wonder which one is actually real.

The most telling statement (by a short-hared Charlie) was "I was supposed to die) wich might have been correct in a way. See in this reality, Jack did make everything right in a sense. It's almost like a world he wants, the only chink being he lost his fathers body.

And of course the big one, Desmond appearing on the plane and then disappearing as if he was never there. Remember Jack and Desmond met long before the island but yet didn't completly remember eachother.

So what's real? And what isn't? What about the other reality...

They wake up with the hatch destroyed like when Desmond impleded it. And Juliet appareently moved with them (unlike Charlotte whose body didn't move, probably cause she was already dead). Sawyer finds Juliet, who ends up dying in his arms, which was.. very sad. Another parallel, Sawyer carries juliet out, facing Jack and then buries her himself, just like Sayid did with Shannon a couple of seasons ago.

Jack trying to save Sayid they way he tried to save Charlie and once again, Kate telling him to stop. Now I believe that Sayid did actually die, but somehow came back to life. But maybe not completly as himself mind you.

Many believe, and I do too, that Jacob may have inhabited him in some way, and may have planned to for awhile after his soul was discorporate from the body he inhabited before. See I think, Jacob was physically trapped in the foot or near it, And the only way he could go anywhere was o find a body to inhabit.

The physical manifestion of him might have simply been someone he'd used before. He'd reanimated Christian in a sense an emissary for him, and it's very possible he did the same with Sayid. The person may have the memories and form of who they were, but they are part Jacob as well.

I mean I could be wrong but I like the theory. And it sets up and interesting thing with Sayid and Locke (in the physical form at least) . Especially when you consder they're positions at the Last Supper table in the promo photos... what do you think?

lisagwilkins · Site Administrator

Oh Patti this is so good, I just had to write somethin' too!

fricksgurl75 wrote:

for the all the good for ever reads this :p

But now that i've had time to somewhat process what I saw last night in the premier. Just observations in general.

Two Realities

I think that's fairly obvious as to what we have here. In one the plan never crashes and in the other they are still on the island, a bit more forward in time though.

Starting with LAX reality, a few things I noticed. It was subtly different and sometimes not so sutbly. But first off with Jack. Who looked as if he was expecting something to happen.
I noticed that too. He looked like the little bit of turbulence was shaking him out a dream or something. He looked like he was apprehensive, waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak.
Almost like he remembered just a little. There was a cut on his neck, which some speculate was from the bomb blast. And since Jack was the one who instigate the whole thing in the first place, he may be the one with the strongest sense of memory.
I would say that's very accurate. Jack was the one who told Kate that nothing in his life had ever felt more right. Could it be that he is remembering the most because he was the most involved?
Subtle difference in the opening scene with him (not including Jacks hair, which was very different than on the day of the crash) Instead of Jack telling Rose "it's Normal" meaning the turbulence, Rose says it to him. Just wonder if that meant anything.
I think it definitely meant something. At the end of last season Bernard told Sawyer, Juliet and Kate that people work their whole lives to have their little place by the water and that was a "normal" life to them. Perhaps, that's why Rose and Bernard seemed so happy and "normal." Not to mention the fact that Bernard actually made it back from the bathroom this time.
Other passngers on the plane: Hurley seems more happy and says nothing bad ever happens to him, almost like a polar opposite of the Hurley we know who thinks everything bad happens to him. Sawyer seems less pissed off so to speak, less like someone who just killed someone and more like a normal person. Even warning Hurley about being taken advantage of. Even Locke seems to be more at peace with his situation as it is.
I thought this was the most resounding change. Hurley was happier. He didn't have this air of doom and gloom around him and he even seemed that he presented a more intelligent persona. I adore Hurley, but I think his character is purposely "dumbed down" from the intelligence level he shows.
If you look back as his backstory life, he worked at a chicken shack, which he eventually bought from winning the lottery. On the island he picked up on the fact that since the guy who looked like The Last Samurai come to life wasn't having Hurley's word's translated so he must understand him. I didn't pick up on that!
Sawyer's entire being was different. There was no impenetrable wall of anger that was up about him. He was conversing and being nice. And he was also in his usual protect Hurley mode which was evident in his comment about not telling people that Hurley won the lottery.
Sun and Jin seem to be back to where they were as far as the way Jin reats her. And I do wonder if Sun even speaks English in this reality.
Oh yes, back to overbearing husband Jin. I would have loved to see Sun speak English, but I think we're going to find out that she does not, that remains to be seen but it seems logical.
A word on Boone, where the situation was a bit interesting. He's alone on the flight, Shannon is conspicuous by her absence (which just might have been due to Maggie being unavilable at the time) but Boone's statement about how she didn't want to be recsued leads me to believe that instead trying to pay off her boyfriend, he simply left. No visit to the police station either, when Sawyer had been dragged through. Maybe in this reaity, he never was.
Another thing that I noticed was Boone saying to Locke that if the plane crashed he was sticking with him. This is quite interesting since sticking with Locke is exactly what caused Boone's demise in the first place.
In a sense it would seem as if their whole lives are either better or different, with the notable exception of Kate. Which makes you wonder if this is essentally a what-if reality. And makes you wonder which one is actually real.
I noticed this as well. Kate was exactly the same and since it's been painfully obvious that the character has had basically no character growth at all, it seems that Kate's behavior falls right in line with what Sawyer said to Jack about he and Kate would be strangers and she would be in handcuffs.
I did find her just the tiniest bit less annoying than I usually find her.
The most telling statement (by a short-hared Charlie) was "I was supposed to die) wich might have been correct in a way. See in this reality, Jack did make everything right in a sense. It's almost like a world he wants, the only chink being he lost his fathers body.

I'm interested to see the dynamic of how losing his father's body will play out and affect Jack. And of course, as is the normal case, Jack cried last night when he was talking with Locke, so the old addage remains true, "Lost is on, Jack must be cryin'."
And of course the big one, Desmond appearing on the plane and then disappearing as if he was never there. Remember Jack and Desmond met long before the island but yet didn't completly remember eachother.
My thought here is that Desmond continues to flash through time. Faraday told him he was special and, if I'm not mistaken, that he was not subject to the same rules as everyone else. So perhaps he's flashing and continuing to help and do things that are relevant to the survivors.
So what's real? And what isn't? What about the other reality...

They wake up with the hatch destroyed like when Desmond imploded it. And Juliet apparently moved with them (unlike Charlotte whose body didn't move, probably cause she was already dead). Sawyer finds Juliet, who ends up dying in his arms, which was.. very sad. Another parallel, Sawyer carries Juliet out, facing Jack and then buries her himself, just like Sayid did with Shannon a couple of seasons ago.
I was very pleased to see the parallels between Sayid and Sawyer in this episode. Of course I also loved the part where Sawyer kicked Jack back into the crater too. Talk about a long time comin'.
Juliet's death was very, very sad and I will admit I did cry. Yes, I'm a sap.
Jack trying to save Sayid they way he tried to save Charlie and once again, Kate telling him to stop. Now I believe that Sayid did actually die, but somehow came back to life. But maybe not completly as himself mind you.
I noticed this as well. And I do think Sayid died but I also think he's being inhabited by Jacob in some way. The scene of pulling Sayid up out of the water signified to me some type of redemption, a baptism, if you will, the theory being that if one is baptized the "old" person is gone and he is raised to walk in a "new" life. Perhaps that is signified by the possibility of Jacob being in Sayid's body.
Many believe, and I do too, that Jacob may have inhabited him in some way, and may have planned to for awhile after his soul was discorporate from the body he inhabited before. See I think, Jacob was physically trapped in the foot or near it, And the only way he could go anywhere was to find a body to inhabit.
Now that's an interesting thought. I never thought about Jacob needing a body to inhabit but that could very well be true, give the MIB/Flocke was the smoke monster.
The physical manifestion of him might have simply been someone he'd used before. He'd reanimated Christian in a sense an emissary for him, and it's very possible he did the same with Sayid. The person may have the memories and form of who they were, but they are part Jacob as well.
This could mean that human manifestation that we know as Jacob may actually be just a form that he takes and he is spirit rather than human form. Does this remind anyone of the classic battle between good and evil. Could Jacob be God and the Man in Black/Flocke be Satan?
I mean I could be wrong but I like the theory. And it sets up and interesting thing with Sayid and Locke (in the physical form at least) . Especially when you consder they're positions at the Last Supper table in the promo photos... what do you think?
I find the particular biblical considerations in the show to be particularly interesting. I am wondering if our Sayid has not become LOST's answer to Jesus. The temple could well have been a throwback to the sepulcher that Jesus's body was placed in and the being brought back to life, a reference to resurrection, which would signify redemption.
Patti, you mentioned a few minutes ago that perhaps Sayid has to most to be redeemed for. I think this could be very possible. When we look at what all he's done and all he's been trained to do, it's quite possible that he does.
One thing I found interesting too was that before Sayid was taken to the temple, he asked Hurley what he thought would happen to him if he died. He said he didn't think it would be very good, perhaps this was a way he could avoid eternal damnation.
Just my thoughts, feel free to respond.

fricksgurl75 · The light on the dark side of me..

Thanks Lisa :)

I find the particular biblical considerations in the show to be particularly interesting. I am wondering if our Sayid has not become LOST's answer to Jesus. The temple could well have been a throwback to the sepulcher that Jesus's body was placed in and the being brought back to life, a reference to resurrection, which would signify redemption.

Well I'mot sure about Jesus but I think the redemption/resurection thing pretty apparent. The idea of wshing away the old life and somehow getting a new one is prevelant there. I mean if he's not only resurrected but healed of the injury that killed him, then we're talking some interesting forces here.

Patti, you mentioned a few minutes ago that perhaps Sayid has to most to be redeemed for. I think this could be very possible. When we look at what all he's done and all he's been trained to do, it's quite possible that he does.

Yeah considering and everything, toturing and taking of life can be the most egregious sins there, maybe other than child abuse and things liket that. And remember, he's not only that, but he's also the one that is probably the mot repentant for what he's done too.

One thing I found interesting too was that before Sayid was taken to the temple, he asked Hurley what he thought would happen to him if he died. He said he didn't think it would be very good, perhaps this was a way he could avoid eternal damnation.

Just my thoughts, feel free to respond.

As some say 'there's a place called heaven, and a place called hell.' And sometimes hell is a state of mind as well. Dosen't have to be a place. He believes he's going to a bad place. If you think carefully, he's defaintly been on a downward spiral rather than an upturn like Sawer. Had a few chances to turn it around and pretty much all of them were ripped away as we know.

An inteesting thought was that Jacob was adamant about making sure Sayid didn't die. Even since i've been watching this show, as much as I loved Sayid, I never thouht he would be that important to scheme of things. I always thought that Jack, or Sawyer or Desmond would've have gotten that treatment. I would've pegged them first as being more important. Sayid is almsot a supporting character on the show.

But we're on to something on this. Everyone on the show has or had a particular purpose. There was something ultimatley special about them. I would personally love to hear Lyndi's thoughts on Desomnd and his purprose may be in all this.

But another note on Sayid before I move on. In the Dark Tower books, Roland, the main charcher, is trained and lives by way of the gun. He was taught how to survive in a world where a gun will always be against your head or a knife in your back. He is said to be so quick, and so deadly that he shoos before he even has time to think about it. It was said someone else that he had so much blood on his hands 'the guilt of worlds around his neck' . He himself said he walked a road of eternal damnatin as a reault.

Yet he was capable of great love and painful remorse. And as terrible person as he was and is, was an agent of the White. This could be plan for Sayid, considering he resembles Roland remarkably in that aspect.

This brings me to Ben for a second who rants on to Jacob about all he's sacrificed how he didn't ask what was in it for hm. And when he wanted to see him, got nothing in return. 'What about me" he asked and Jacobs respone was. "What about you?" See Ben expected, believed, that he deserved something, a rewrd for his efforts. He was always like that, thinking about himself and he thought he 'deserved' and therefore was selfish and prideful

Alot of people on that show were like that, thinking only about what they think they deserved and used it justify their actions in life. Like Kate, who dosen't think she should pay for killing Wayne, cause he was a wife-beating jerk. But she did more for own reason and won't own up to it. You don't get a pass just because you think you deserve one.

A line that seems to take on more meaning is one delieved by Sayid to Shannon in the first season. "I had hopes, but no expectations.' he's making a considerable effoert, in tte 'hope' thaat she'll reciprocate , but dosen't 'expect' anything and that's the difference.

To Expect a reward of some kind, or compensatoin implies that self-gratification, satifaction or a need to ease your concince, is your only reason for doing it in the first place. Other than doing because it's the right thing t do, whether its a god deed or repentance. Hence Jacob saying "What about you?"

In other words, Happiness and justice are things you Hope for, but don't Expect them, just because you think you deserve them.

Anyways I kind of deviated a little but if anyone else has any thoughts on that feel free to add to it :) Thoughts on anything or anyone else or more on this are welcome

-- Edited by fricksgurl75 on Thursday 4th of February 2010 10:27:51 PM

fricksgurl75 · The light on the dark side of me..

Ok questions on the episodes, I may be wrting just to myself but I think I'd like to toss some things out to be answered now.

What is the 'thing' that the Samurai guy said took over Claire, and is apparently now taking over Sayid? He called a darkness.. what it is?

I think it's the sickness we've been hearing about. Think about for a second. Danielle told Sayid, and we saw it play out later in front of Jin,about how when her crew was grabbed or whatever by the smooke monster, w hen they returned they were 'different'. She said her husband looked like himself, but he wasn't. And we saw him pull a gun on her right befoe she shot him.

See I think it happened to Claire when she was in the house and it blew up. Maybe like Sayid she was killed in some way but like him came back. In the space between, whatever it is, claimed them both. The Samurai guy said once it reachs your heart, you will no longer be you. Maybe that's it way in though, through a break in conciousness at a particular time, that's how gets into people, not contagious like the flu, but more insidous. Just a theory, i'd lo ve to hear others.

Why did Flocke seek out Sawyer of all people?

Someone theorized cause he was outside the temple. But so is Kate, and the other on the beach. Why Sawyer? My theory being that I believe Richard more than I believe Flocke. And that Flocke needs Sawyer to get to the others. Cause like Richard says, he wants them all dead. Maybe that's the only way, HE can get off.

But why Sawyer? Other than being outside the temple that is? Cause at this moment Sawyer is the most vulerable as well. Sitting their, wallowing, drinking away the pain of his loss of Juliet, he is by far the easiest to get to. Focus the anger in the right direction he can be used, like Sayid was used by Ben to do his dirty work. By getting him when he was vulnerable as well.

Some have said, Sawyer is playing Flocke, im sure if he is totally, he looks like he sort of half believes him at this point. It wouldn't make Sawyer any less smart if he's taken in a bit, like I said, he's in a bad place himself right now. He could be pulling off his own con right now but.. I guess we'll see right?

What is the meaning of the numbered names?

To me this is fairly obvious, each surviover was assigned a number by Jacob himself, and the ones crossed out are the ones that didn't make it so to speak. I'm sure if you looked you would see crossed out names such as Rutherford, Cortez, Carlyle, Pace etc etc. The actual numbers themsevles are assigned to a paricular group of people.

4 is Locke, who can be crossed out now
8 is Hurley
15 is Sawyer
16 is Sayid
23 is Jack
42 is either Jin or Sun (it dosen't specify which one witch is a bit interesting to me)

Interesting, Kate's name dosen't seem to be up there, nobodies seen it on the wall. What the does that mean? Speculatins havesaid that she's a vairable, or that maybe she's been crossed off already, which might nt bode well for her.

Who is Flocke?

10 million dollar question here, but he reminds me of a Svengali, someone who manipulates people skillfully. The Devil as they say, mixes lies with the truth, so it's harder to tell them apart. Or as Deep Throat told Mulder on the X-Files " A lie Agent Mulder, is most conveintly hidden between 2 truths" Part of what he told Sawyer was true, but I think part of it was a lie as well.

So what or who is he? He hasn't reveled his name yet, but Richard seems to know to know who he is. And he's scared of him, and Richard is rarely scared himself. And I will give Sawyer this much, he knew he wasn't talking to Locke.

BTW a couple of observaionss here:

Observation #1
The weight scale had a White Rock and a Black one on it. Flocke took the White one and tossed it away, sending the balance of power into the black. Symbolic? Most likely.

Observaion #2
When Jacob visited people, he visited most of them pre-crash, with 2 notable exceptions... Sayid and Hurley. Hurely remember he visited in the car after he was released from the prison. And Sayid, he met right before Nadia was killed. Wonder why he waited til then for those 2? Especially if Flocke's contention was he was shifting people onto that plane so to speak.

The second part of this particular observaion involves the fact theat he stopped Sayid as he and Nadia wer about to walk into the intersection. Knowing Sayid he probably would've pushed Nadia out of the way of the car and mabye been hit himself. Did Jacob save him that regard. Cause I don't think this was malicious on his part. Just an interesting theory that's all.

Just theoriis and observations so far...feel free to add anything..

lisagwilkins · Site Administrator

Oh wow Patti!!! This is so great...you know I gotta put my 2 cents in!

What is the 'thing' that the Samurai guy said took over Claire, and is apparently now taking over Sayid? He called a darkness.. what it is?

I think it's the sickness we've been hearing about. Think about for a second. Danielle told Sayid, and we saw it play out later in front of Jin,about how when her crew was grabbed or whatever by the smooke monster, w hen they returned they were 'different'. She said her husband looked like himself, but he wasn't. And we saw him pull a gun on her right befoe she shot him.

See I think it happened to Claire when she was in the house and it blew up. Maybe like Sayid she was killed in some way but like him came back. In the space between, whatever it is, claimed them both. The Samurai guy said once it reachs your heart, you will no longer be you. Maybe that's it way in though, through a break in conciousness at a particular time, that's how gets into people, not contagious like the flu, but more insidous. Just a theory, i'd lo ve to hear others.
I think you're on to something here. There is something that happens that causes the "sickness" to be able to come in. Dogen said that Sayid had been "claimed". How did he come to be claimed? How did the "sickness" get in and what is the action that happens to cause the "sickness" to get in. Those are the pressing questions there. There must be a catalyst that causes this to happen and the question then is, what is the catalyst.
I think there is also something to be said for the fact that Claire was in the cabin with Christian. Maybe that has something to do with the sickness as well.
Why did Flocke seek out Sawyer of all people?

Someone theorized cause he was outside the temple. But so is Kate, and the other on the beach. Why Sawyer? My theory being that I believe Richard more than I believe Flocke. And that Flocke needs Sawyer to get to the others. Cause like Richard says, he wants them all dead. Maybe that's the only way, HE can get off.

But why Sawyer? Other than being outside the temple that is? Cause at this moment Sawyer is the most vulerable as well. Sitting their, wallowing, drinking away the pain of his loss of Juliet, he is by far the easiest to get to. Focus the anger in the right direction he can be used, like Sayid was used by Ben to do his dirty work. By getting him when he was vulnerable as well.

Some have said, Sawyer is playing Flocke, im sure if he is totally, he looks like he sort of half believes him at this point. It wouldn't make Sawyer any less smart if he's taken in a bit, like I said, he's in a bad place himself right now. He could be pulling off his own con right now but.. I guess we'll see right?
I think a lot of the reason that Un-Locke (I like to call him Un-Locke) came to Sawyer had to do with him being out of the protection of the temple. And as for Kate, well who wants to seek her out anyway...hehehe.
I think in Un-Locke's way of thinking, he's coming after Sawyer because he thinks Sawyer might be an easy mark. This may or may not be true. Sawyer's pretty savvy and very smart and it could be that Sawyer knows exactly what Un-Locke is up to.
Another thing I find to be very interesting is fact that Sawyer could see the little blond-haired boy, but Richard couldn't. The reason for that is very intriguing. If we look at it by time on the island and familiarity with the island alone, then Richard should have been able to see him and Sawyer shouldn't have, but that wasn't the case here. So if it isn't, then the question is why?
What is the meaning of the numbered names?

To me this is fairly obvious, each surviover was assigned a number by Jacob himself, and the ones crossed out are the ones that didn't make it so to speak. I'm sure if you looked you would see crossed out names such as Rutherford, Cortez, Carlyle, Pace etc etc. The actual numbers themsevles are assigned to a paricular group of people.

4 is Locke, who can be crossed out now
8 is Hurley
15 is Sawyer
16 is Sayid
23 is Jack
42 is either Jin or Sun (it dosen't specify which one witch is a bit interesting to me)

Interesting, Kate's name dosen't seem to be up there, nobodies seen it on the wall. What the does that mean? Speculatins havesaid that she's a vairable, or that maybe she's been crossed off already, which might nt bode well for her.
My general feelings about Kate are well known and if there's something that keeps her crossed out then I'm all for it. Personally I'd like to see her as one of the ones dead and buried, but that's my own feeling.
So the next question is why do the key players on the show have each number and what is the significance of number to survivor. Specifically, what is it that makes Hurley number 8, Sawyer number 15, etc? Is that random? Is it in order of importance? What?
Another thing that is very interesting is that Hurley and Sawyer both are associated with the flight number. Is there some significance here to that?
Who is Flocke?

10 million dollar question here, but he reminds me of a Svengali, someone who manipulates people skillfully. The Devil as they say, mixes lies with the truth, so it's harder to tell them apart. Or as Deep Throat told Mulder on the X-Files " A lie Agent Mulder, is most conveintly hidden between 2 truths" Part of what he told Sawyer was true, but I think part of it was a lie as well.

So what or who is he? He hasn't reveled his name yet, but Richard seems to know to know who he is. And he's scared of him, and Richard is rarely scared himself. And I will give Sawyer this much, he knew he wasn't talking to Locke.
This is one of the most intriguing questions. I am considering this from a biblical standpoint, since that seems to be the most likely reference at the moment. I Peter 5:8 reads, "...for your adversary the Devil roams about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." Could it be that Un-Locke is the "adversary" and Sawyer is the thing he wishes to devour.
Matthew 10:16 seems to fit this by stating that, "Behold. I send you our as sheep amongst the wolves, be ye wise as serpents, yet guileless as doves." Could this be directed at Sawyer who seems to be influenced by Un-Locke? Or, could it mean that Sawyer knows exactly what he's doing and is playing Un-Locke? It'll be interesting to find out.
BTW a couple of observaionss here:

Observation #1
The weight scale had a White Rock and a Black one on it. Flocke took the White one and tossed it away, sending the balance of power into the black. Symbolic? Most likely.
I agree totally.
Observaion #2
When Jacob visited people, he visited most of them pre-crash, with 2 notable exceptions... Sayid and Hurley. Hurely remember he visited in the car after he was released from the prison. And Sayid, he met right before Nadia was killed. Wonder why he waited til then for those 2? Especially if Flocke's contention was he was shifting people onto that plane so to speak.

The second part of this particular observaion involves the fact theat he stopped Sayid as he and Nadia wer about to walk into the intersection. Knowing Sayid he probably would've pushed Nadia out of the way of the car and mabye been hit himself. Did Jacob save him that regard. Cause I don't think this was malicious on his part. Just an interesting theory that's all.

Just theoriis and observations so far...feel free to add anything..
I really hadn't picked up on this one and I think you're spot on Patti. Sayid would have let himself be killed to save Nadia, again sacrificing himself to care for her, similarly to what he did to let her go during her "interrogation". He shot himself in the leg to create a diversion so that she could get away free.
Jacob surely would have known that he would have made sure she was saved, so perhaps by stopping Sayid, it was the only way to ensure he would return to the island.
These are such interesting questions and really worth more consideration.

fricksgurl75 · The light on the dark side of me..

Lisa those biblical referenes were awesome, I can see it in the show.

I really hadn't picked up on this one and I think you're spot on Patti. Sayid would have let himself be killed to save Nadia, again sacrificing himself to care for her, similarly to what he did to let her go during her "interrogation". He shot himself in the leg to create a diversion so that she could get away free.

Well more than now, she's his wife. Sayid would've gladly traded places with Nadia in front of that car. Just he would've taken the bullet for Shannon if he could've. I do think Jacob wass sparing cause like I said, I saw no maviolence in his actions. Unlike Flocke, or Ben. in that respect. I think Jacob,like God has his reasos for the things he does, and dosen't do.

Jacob surely would have known that he would have made sure she was saved, so perhaps by stopping Sayid, it was the only way to ensure he would return to the island.

Exactly. It wa the force that would evetually get him back there. Jacob made it clear he wanted Sayid to live. For whatever reaon, but maybe so he woldnt get infected and be beyond his reach.

A point that I didnt mention in the last one was about Smokey aka Flocke. The writers said that we'd seen the Smoke Monster several times and not realized it. It made me think that it's taken the from of Alex to Ben, and the form of Eko's borther as well. And I think it took the form of Christian too and very likedly Dave. And maybe, Walt as well.

Think about it. Jack nearly fell off a cliff in White Rabbit chasing Christian, almost as if it was taying to kill him (leasving aside any dislkike of Jack here, just think about that). And Christian appeared to Claire on the island too and may suceeded where it failed with Jack.

Dave almost had Hurley jumping off a cliff. And Walt pretty much led Shannon to her death at the hands of Ana. I don't think Walt himself would've done that. What if another force is at work, one that was killing off, or trying to, kill of the survivors, but not neccesarily doing it themelves. It's a a theory that I have that any of these people are a threat to Flocke.

He only needs as far as what they can do for him, ad then they will perish in some way when he's done with them. Look what he got Ben to do. And I'm a bit worried with Sawyer, im ntot entirely convinced Sawyer isn't being manipulate. He's been conned before, by Ben remember?

I think it's an interesting theory that I didn't mention cause I just kind of forgot. i'll have more when I've seen more epis. Can tell you one thing, i'm looking forward to the rest of this season. How it plays out, and who i'm gonna see biggrin

-- Edited by fricksgurl75 on Thursday 18th of February 2010 06:28:11 AM

lisagwilkins · Site Administrator

Patti that was wonderful!! I have to leave right now and head over to Mom's...she took a bad fall last night. I'll post back to this and to role play this afternoon.

Okay here's what I'm thinkin'...

Oh the thought of Sawyer being manipulated, it reminds me of Jesus' temptation in the Garden of Gethsemane.

Matthew 4:8-10 states that Jesus was taken up on the mountain and that Satan tempted him and said that he would give him all the kingdoms of the world to rule if he would denounce God and Jesus refused. The scene with Un-Locke and Sawyer on the bluff before they tried to climb down the rope ladders reminded me particularly of this verse.

I think it could very well be that Un-Locke is tempting Sawyer at the time when he is the most vulnerable. Remember Sawyer said, "I don't give a damn if you're dead...all I care about's this whiskey." Why do most people drink themselves into a drunken stupor? The most obvious answer is to escape from something, so given the possibility that that's why Sawyer was drinking, would it simply be coincidental that Un-Locke would come to him at that time. Of course not, that was carefully planned, because it's been proven that Sawyer's pretty smart and unless he's caught at a weak moment, he doesn't usually go willingly into following anybody.

Sawyer is at his most vulnerable with his guard down. We know Un-Locke is playing on Sawyer's grief and his inability to think straight at the moment, much as Satan began to tempt Jesus after he had fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. Once his defenses were down, Satan could worm his way in. The same with Un-Locke.

As we all know, there are many, many biblical themes on LOST and if you go through and analyze them, you'll see all kinds of references to various parts of The Bible. We have the resurrection theme which appears to be the most common. They most recent example of which is Sayid's "resurrection" from his gun shot wound. I think the most resurrected member of the survivors, though, would have to be Sawyer.

He should have died jumping out of the helicopter, he should have died from Sayid's knife wound, he should have died from the infection from the gunshot wound, and he should have died from the torture by Ben and Danny Pickett but he didn't.

And the next question is why, and I say that is because the island doesn't want him to die and he won't until the island is good and ready to let him...which hopefully won't come and he'll be left standin' at the end of the show.

-- Edited by lisagwilkins on Friday 19th of February 2010 05:32:48 AM

fricksgurl75 · The light on the dark side of me..

Okay here's what I'm thinkin'...

Oh the thought of Sawyer being manipulated, it reminds me of Jesus' temptation in the Garden of Gethsemane.

Matthew 4:8-10 states that Jesus was taken up on the mountain and that Satan tempted him and said that he would give him all the kingdoms of the world to rule if he would denounce God and Jesus refused. The scene with Un-Locke and Sawyer on the bluff before they tried to climb down the rope ladders reminded me particularly of this verse.

Yeah that does sound alot like it, Flocke promising to give Sawyer the answers in return for his help. Whether Sawyer ultimatly refusesesit or not is still up in the air.

I think it could very well be that Un-Locke is tempting Sawyer at the time when he is the most vulnerable. Remember Sawyer said, "I don't give a damn if you're dead...all I care about's this whiskey." Why do most people drink themselves into a drunken stupor? The most obvious answer is to escape from something, so given the possibility that that's why Sawyer was drinking, would it simply be coincidental that Un-Locke would come to him at that time. Of course not, that was carefully planned, because it's been proven that Sawyer's pretty smart and unless he's caught at a weak moment, he doesn't usually go willingly into following anybody.

Exactly my point. Sayid's the same way in terms of will when it comes to thigs like that, but like Sawyer he's been hit when he's vulnerable too. People are inherently weeaker then, when they are hurt and angry and looking, as Locke told Sayid one 'someone to punish' so to spek.

There was an episode of the X-Files when Mulder was telling another agent about how he thought of evil like a virus, and there are certain times in your life, when your open to it, it can get in and make an otherwise good person to bad things. I always thatit was a good analogy. It can lie to you at those times, whispere in your ear and cause you to act in ways you never would've thought, simply cause your vulnerable to it at that stage.

Sawyer is at his most vulnerable with his guard down. We know Un-Locke is playing on Sawyer's grief and his inability to think straight at the moment, much as Satan began to tempt Jesus after he had fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. Once his defenses were down, Satan could worm his way in. The same with Un-Locke.

Right, like Satan with Jesus, or even Ben with Syid after Nadia's death.

As we all know, there are many, many biblical themes on LOST and if you go through and analyze them, you'll see all kinds of references to various parts of The Bible. We have the resurrection theme which appears to be the most common. They most recent example of which is Sayid's "resurrection" from his gun shot wound. I think the most resurrected member of the survivors, though, would have to be Sawyer.

He should have died jumping out of the helicopter, he should have died from Sayid's knife wound, he should have died from the infection from the gunshot wound, and he should have died from the torture by Ben and Danny Pickett but he didn't.

Yeah Sayerr could've died any one of those times that is true. He's been gvien multiple second chances to live so to speak. That was partly why his condemnation of why Sayid 'an Iraqi torturer who shoots kids' got to me cause Sawyer isn't exactly a saint but has brought from the brink several times to life. Once again I understood it was his anger speaking but I thought there was a hypocrisy there too.

And the next question is why, and I say that is because the island doesn't want him to die and he won't until the island is good and ready to let him...which hopefully won't come and he'll be left standin' at the end of the show.

Well it wouldn't let Locke kill himself either, or Micheal remember? Even attempt they made was thwarted until acts of acts of either sacrifice or murder. It won't seem to let Sayid die either, althoug he did kind of. But it let others.

Locke said Boone was a sacrifice the island demaned, now was it the island or something else that demanded it. Same with Shannon, samed with Ana and Libby, Charlie and Eko. What other forces were at work, or was something whittling off survivors one by one? In the guise of what the isalnd wants?

It is the vagrancies of fate or is it something sinister? Maybe thes people are what keeps this evil on this island and that by eliminating all of them it can finally get off. What of that?

Cause as muh as Flocke wants to make Jacob seem like the bad guy, he dosen't seem that way to me, I don't think anything he's done coulde be consdired mavilolent in nature. s is in a way like God, his ways are mysterious and dsn't ofen make sense, callling people to question it, and get angry at him with things go wrong.

Many circumstance when he met people, he didn't directly interfere in theire lives, maybe with the exception of Sayid. And telling Kate not to steal anymore (so much for that heh)

I think the thing I remember most from that brainwash tape they had on Karl was not just 'God loves you as he loved Jacob' but the 'we are the cause of own suffering'. And that has, mostly been the case. The devil plays on your pain and insecurities, and can manipulate your actions but the truth is, you can decide to turn away, and mos of these people haven't at those times. That's the time when your most open, and it's the time you need the most strength to resist, and nott everyone has it.

And a theme i've seen with these people, epecially with Sayid and Sawyer, is that love seems to transform them, and the loss of it seem to destroy them. It's like hey need if for air, they need something, or someone to sort of, keep the beast at bay. Both of those 2 have had it a couple of times, only to have it go away. Its the on thing hat seems to overcome their darker tendencies.

So in a way, salvation lies maybe Jack wa right in the sense of living toether and dying alone. Cause it' te connection between people that keeps us from the dearkness that could consume us easily. Sayid and Sawyer were essetially alone when they commited their more heinous acts.

Sayid told Danielle that he'd been 'holding on to the hope that's she's out there, but the more I hod on to that, the more I pull away from thse around me who can help me' In other words, he's alone until he accepts the help of others.

Interesting how this show fold back on itself sometimes too, and something somoen said way in the beginning, have resonnance now don't you think?